Part of our cooperation are interviews which each partner made with at least five citizens connected to their organisation.
We agreed on the following questions:
1. Could you mention one or two experiences of your life which show a link to the history of your country?
2. What associations come in your mind when you think about …
… [the topics which each partner organisation is mainly focusing]
3. Is there a European dimension of the events (question 2)?
4. What issues should be pushed into public debate on history? How should they made a subject of discussion?
Find below the the interviews given in different languages. We – the colleagues from the partner organisations – decided to publish an English summery of each interview. Follows…
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weltgewandt e.V./DE
Im Rahmen unseres europäischen Projektes „Connecting Memories“ („Erinnerungen verknüpfen„) führten wir Interviews mit Bürgerinnen und Bürgern Berlins durch – gleich welcher Herkunft. Die Fragen waren:
1. Kannst du ein bis zwei Erfahrungen aus deinem Leben erzählen, die mit der Geschichte deines Landes verwoben sind? 2. Was kommt dir in den Sinn, wenn du an die Nazi-Zeit denkst? Was sind deine Assoziationen, wenn du an das Jahr 1989 und den Vereinigungsprozesses der 1990er Jahre denkst? 3. Kannst du eine europäische Dimension der beiden Themen sehen? 4. Welche Themen sollten Gegenstand öffentlicher Debatten zu Geschichte sein, und wie sollten sie erörtert werden?
Peter , aufgewachsen im damaligen West-Berlin, schildert seine Erfahrungen als 9-Jähriger mit der Mauer und der Maueröffnung. Er fragt nach dem Zusammenhalt in der Vielfalt – damals, heute, in der Zukunft. Ein Zusammenleben, das sich frei hält von Feindbildern.
Für Susanne bedeutet die „Wende“ 1989 Öffnung und Freiheit. Sie mahnt, die Zeit des Nationalsozialismus ins Gedächtnis zu rufen und dies anhand konkreter Informationen zu tun.
Auch Mohammad schildert seine Überlegungen zu Faschismus und Krieg. Er schätzt die Vielfalt der Religionen in seinem Heimatland Syrien und erzählt, wie mehrheitlich muslimische Patienten seines christlichen Hausarztes sich für diesen einsetzten. Als die „Rebellen“ sein Auto gestohlen hatten, holten sie es für ihren Arzt wieder zurück. Geschehen in der Nähe von Damaskus. Mitten im Krieg. (Das Open-Air-Interview wurde durch ein Sommergewitter beendet.)
Anton schildert den Vereinigungsprozess in den 1990er Jahren aus westdeutscher Sicht. Die „Wende“ habe westdeutschen Unternehmen einen Markt eröffnet, der es erlaubt habe, ihre eigene Absatzkrise zu lösen – indem „ein ganzes Land arbeitslos gemacht wurde“. Ohne den Verlauf des deutsch-deutschen Vereinigungsprozesses sei gleichwohl die europäische Vereinigung nicht möglich gewesen. Nur sollte diese nicht nur eine „Erweiterung wirtschaftlicher Möglichkeiten“ sein. Es gelte, die Kultur mehr zu berücksichtigen und das gegenseitige Verständnis zu fördern. Außerdem sollte gemeinsam die ökologische Wende angegangen werden. „Man müsste das den Leuten entsprechend darstellen und ihnen eine Chance geben, sich daran zu beteiligen. Das wäre dann wirklich ein europäisches Projekt.“
Isabelle lässt eine ‚weibliche‘ Sicht auf ihren persönlichen Bezug zur Geschichte ihres Landes erkennen, insofern sie auf ihre frühere Beziehung zu einem Mann in den USA eingeht, der jüdisch ist. Sie sah sich dadurch auf konkrete Weise mit der Erinnerung an die Shoa/den Holocaust konfrontiert – und zum ‚Brückenbau‘ in der Gegenwart. In der Beziehung zu einem Mann aus Russland spiegelte sich ein anderer, markanter Teil jüngster europäischer Geschichte, die Transformation in den 1990er Jahren in Russland und Osteuropa einschließlich Ostdeutschlands. Einfühlsam spricht sie über die Menschen ihres aktuellen beruflichen Umfelds, die heute die „Wunde Wende“ mit sich tragen. Sie konstatiert, dass nicht wenige Leute das Gefühl hätten, mit ihrer Biografie „nicht gesehen“ zu werden. Sie plädiert dafür, den Vereinigungsprozess aus verschiedenen Perspektiven zu betrachten. Oftmals werde er als eine Art Endpunkt dargestellt. Doch wäre es gut, weiterzudenken und zu fragen: „Welche Zwänge sind heute da, aus denen wir uns befreien können? Wie demokratisch sind wir wirklich als Gesellschaft, wer ist benachteiligt und warum?“ Demokratie stehe damit auch im Zusammenhang mit sozialen Fragen.
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Akademia Humanistyczno-Ekonomiczna w Łodzi (AHE)/PL
1st interview
1. Can you tell experience of your life linked with the history of your country?
Once in Lodz I met old lady and we start to talk. She told Me very interesting things about my city from the 2. World War. She told Me as well that She was rescue by polish family before Germans could realize that She was in a flat. She was jewish woman.
2. What historical topics should be discussed? And how it should be remembered?
For Me very important is time of mentioned War. My granpa was in Lager, Germans killed Grand grand father because he helped jewes and took our manor house. So in my opinion we should still talk about those time but only as a historical truth. Remind young people about it, but not as hate but only as a part of our history.
We could interest youth by doing Really good ‚movie’ Where good graphicers will do interesting Effects in it and between it some remembers of old people. Events about our history in different cities will be Grate as well.
3. What are your associations in terms of women’s involvement in historical events?
Women which fight for polish indepence during Not only 1.and2. WW.
But as well in XIX and XVIII century. We dont speak about them.
4. In which way can you see a European link regarding themes mentioned above?
I see some events linked with mentioned parts of history but not in this way which are proper in my opinion.
2nd interview
1. Can you tell experience of your life linked with the history of your country?
– Yes. One of those experiences is fatal airplane crash, where Polish president has died. It was in 2010 and people still remember this accident, as one of the most significant air crash in Polish history.
2. What historical topics should be discussed? And how it should be remembered?
– Every historical topic should be discussed. We have schools to discuss historical topics and schools obligatory should do not pass any of historical event. Every historical event should be understood and remembered as crucial for the current situation.
3. Can you tell your associations in terms of women’s involvement in historical events?
– I do not have significant associations in terms of women’s involvement in historical events.
4. In which way can you see a European link regarding themes mentioned above?
– May it should be connected with history learning programmes in schools to promote and focus on historical events of Europe.
3rd interview
1. Can you tell experience of your life linked with the history of your country?
2. What historical topics should be discussed? And how it should be remembered?
3. Can you tell your associations in terms of women’s involvement in historical events?
4. In which way can you see a European link regarding themes mentioned above?
1. I do not recall any particular personal event, which hints at the history of Poland. I can say, however, that as an expatriate I feel more than ever alert to the on-going debates including national issues. The geographical distance from my country has saturated my national awareness.
2. Many contemporary debates address the topic of migration. I believe that calling attention to the entanglement of Polish history in similar subject matters could prove beneficial. We could recall stories of Polish refugees in Iran or India, reiterate memoirs of Poles who sought and found shelter abroad during World War II. Reminiscing about the stories of the exile, the process of seeking refuge narrated by the Polish survivors or their descendants could help personalize the history. This could potentially awaken historical awareness; revive social memory.
3. Women like Irena Sendlerowa or Zofia Kossak-Szczucka deserve an even more visible recognition in historical debates. Efforts such as smuggling 2500 Jewish children out of Warsaw Ghetto (Sendlerowa) or creating organisations battling Holocaust (Kossak-Szczucka) should be reiterated. Such emphasis could highlight the status of women as activists, humanitarians and heroines in addition to their more recognized contributions as WWII army nurses etc.
4. I believe that the theme addressed in question 2 is linked to European issues in particular. Awakening memories, creating vivid, personalized links to past instances of migration could provide a backdrop to the on-going debates. Dwelling from historical experiences can also provide tangible solutions: what happened with the Polish refugees after they found asylum? How did they adapt to new cultural circumstances? How did they assimilate? How did they make their living there? How can these stories help solve contemporary issues with migration?
4th interview
1. Can you tell experience of your life linked with the history of your country?
I was born in 1978. I experienced the collapse of Communism in 1989, when I was an eleven years old child. Almost empty shelves in shops, even in groceries, had been packed with goods overnight. The citizens ‘equal’ during the time of Communism, because they had to stand in long queues before the shops to get basic goods, regardless they had more or less money, suddenly disappeared. Instead of the queues before shops’ windows, the large economic gap between rich and poor people was more and more visible. A grief and hopelessness caused by bankrupting Communist country was replaced by ‘wild’ capitalism and the pressure for success. The chaos in the structures of the country under its transformation fostered the dark businesses and mafia. ‘Old Communist heroes’ and former vision of the history were removed from pupils’ handbooks and replaced by ‘a new set’ of deserved people. People in the country struggled with the everyday life in young capitalist economy and young democracy. It was getting better in general, but there was not enough money in the country for bigger investments, especially in small towns and in the countryside. The changes in the look of public space and the renovation of railway stations, monuments, construction new and well equipped buildings for universities etc. were really visible after 2004, when Poland has become a member of EU. The possibility to travel around Europe without border controls became possible and from my personal point of view it was the great time in the history of my country, where for many decades people had to ask the authorities for the permission to travel abroad. Even after 1989, when we already had passports, we had to spend hours waiting at the border for passport control.
2. What historical topics should be discussed? And how it should be remembered?
As a person educated in Polish system of education, I can say that all the way of learning the history in schools should be revised. The history is learned as a set of ‘important’ battles and dates and and as a pantheon of deserved people and heroes – mostly men. However, this is only one side of the story and we should remember not only soldiers who died in the battles but also common people who tried to rise countries after wars and other disasters. There were a large number of women among them and their merits are not mentioned at all or underappreciated. One of the important periods in Poland’s history was the time between the first and the second world war. I see the great similarity between ‘new born’ Poland in 1918, after over 120 years of partition of the country, and the contemporary country, which in 1989 used the opportunity to get out of the Soviet Union’s control. The historical topics should be discussed as an analogy to contemporary problems, such us the causes of growing fascism, xenophobia, sexism etc.
A very interesting topic could be also the case of people who were active in different fields in their times but their biographies are not clear and they are controversial from many points of view, such as the case of Hanna Reitsch (a German pilot born in Hirschberg belonged to Germany in the past, but Polish town today) whose life could be an interesting link between Polish and German history, especially when the notion of patriotism is discussed. Another interesting case is Fifi Zastrow – an actress of Jewish origin, who played main roles in German Nazi Theatre. Her biography evokes many questions concerning the the notion of ‘identity’. Eugenia Steinbart, for example, was an uneducated women – a worker who almost all her life pretended a man. It could be caused by troubles with her gender identity but her decision could be also connected with economical reasons, because the gap between men’s and women’s salaries was much more large than today. Eugenia’s case can cause questions about the relations between gender and economy.
3. Can you tell your associations in terms of women’s involvement in historical events?
Women were involved in many revolutionary movements, but they also contributed to the development of art and science. Hildegard from Bingen – a Benedictine abbess contributed a lot to collecting and preserving knowledge on natural medicine, herbs etc. The widely known case of woman scientist is Maria Sklodowska-Curie, who discovered radium and polonium in the end of 19th century. The most important historical movement created by women is obviously the feminism with such names as Olympe de Gouges – the author of The Declaration of the Rights of Woman (September 1791), suffragettes fighting for voting right for women and next generations of feminist artists, reseachers and activists. Especially the feminists from seventies and from the next decades pay their attention on respect the rights of all minorities, not only women, but also LGBTI people and coloured people. It was a great turn in the history and society. Feminism also made possible the revision of the history, which was former descibed only from the perspective of white, well educated men.
4. In which way can you see a European link regarding themes mentioned above?
Many of the issues mentioned above concern all the European countries. Some of those countries cope with the problem of gender inequality still visible in many fields of public and family life in better way than the others, but in fact everywhere is still something to do. I can say that the right to safe abortion on request should be introduced in all the EU countries. It should not be left as a decision of countries’ governments, because women’s rights are human rights. The problem of intolerance for minorities, sexism and xenophobia is also everywhere, but in Post-communist countries this is even stronger, because such issues started to be discussed in these countries only several years after Communism collapse and there were not widely dscussed in fact. Although Communist economy and Soviet Union, which controlled it collapsed, a large number of old people, who lost their bad paid but guaranteed jobs, do not believe in the economical solutions and cultural values of the West. These differences in mentality of people from former Commminist countries and the citizens of Western Europe and the causes of these differences, should be taken into account and discussed in deepened way. The awareness of the differences and similarities of culture and societies of different European countries can be helpful in mutual understanding.
Referring to the women’s names mentioned above I can add, that Eugenia Steinbart lived in Lodz, but her national identity is not known. As she lived in the city where Polish, Russian, German and Jewish culture coexisted, she would be a representative of all of them. Fifi Zastrow was partly German, partly Jewish and perhaps a bit Polish or Estonian. I see such personalities as an interesting link between different nationalities and cultures. The knowledge of their biographies and the attempt to understand the context of their life and their choices, can be a chance for better and deeper understanding of our common European history.
Anka Leśniak
A.M.E.F.E. (Asociación Malagueña de Eduación y Formación Europea), Spain.
Interviewer 1:
Antonia is a 91-year-old woman, born in Huesa, province of Jaén, to the south of Spain, in Andalusia, her life before the war began, she was calm without major upsets.
After the war broke out, he lived a difficult and full of fears, people at that time lived the misery of war and its subsequent recovery.
Many people went hungry and had difficulties to survive. In the case of Antonia, her family never went hungry, since her father was a bricklayer, and she was in charge of working in nearby “cortijos” repairing any damage.
Account that, at that time, he was not paid in money, but was paid in “spices”, such as wheat, chickpeas, potatoes and all kinds of food, with which Antonia’s family never passed needs.
He also tells us that the famous “ration cards” appeared, in which appeared the proportions that should be given to each person.
Life changed for some to better and for others to worse, as happens after a war, the victors get better life, and the losers worse life. After the end of the war, the people were calmer, although they entered a time known as “Dictatorship”, with lack of freedom and expression for fear of reprisals that might arise.
The role of the woman during, and after the war was null, imprisoned, mistreated, etc. Antonia adds that both sides exercised this type of mistreatment towards women, which unfortunately continues to happen in our society to this day.
During the war there were many dead and shot, in the family of Antonia there was no loss, but his father was imprisoned for some time.
His family fought on the republican side, and after the reprisal they changed sides to survive.
There were clashes over the political ideals in Antonia’s family, since one part was left-wing and the other right-wing. To this day, those clashes caused the division of a part of his family.
According to his point of view, war is always negative, evil is the most used word by Antonia.
After the war, there was not much freedom, the biggest entertainment of the time were popular games, such as hopscotch and skipping
Values the years of dictatorship as useless and bad.
To this day he believes that people continue hating each other, both for political ideals as ethnic and religious. In fact, he complains about immigration that affects both Spain and much of Europe. Expresses his displeasure for wanting to give the immigrant privileges that according to her do not have the citizens of our country.
Antonia says goodbye by thanking everyone who has heard her and those who will listen to her.
Interviewer 2:
Fernando Leiva Guijosa y José Sánchez Collado (Link)
Fernando and José, are two men of 70 and 67 respectively, both were born in Larva, the smallest town in the province of Jaén, in Andalusia, with approximately 400 inhabitants.
According to us, they lived fully the post-civil war period, specifically the Franco dictatorship and the transition to democracy that they have today in their country.
They agree that, at that time, in their hometown, they both had freedom, that is, they did what they wanted. José was a postman, and Fernando had a family business that he had to take over after the early death of his father at the age of 49.
However, this freedom was coerced when it came to expressing their opinions and ideals to the people, for fear of reprisals that could affect them in those years. They complain about having to abide by rules they did not share, such as attending church every Sunday, or having to pray at school every day.
They make reference, that in the dictatorship and during the transition everybody had a job, or there was work for all the people who wanted to work.
As with the freedom that man had at that time, they agree that the role of women in the dictatorship and the transition was totally null, in fact, they think that, to this day in Andalusia, women still live under the “slavery” of men.
There was no type of confrontation between the families of both, since all defended to the same side during the war, and that made that, when the conflict ended, they remained the same. However, if there was one among the villagers, since, being so small, everyone knew which side each belonged to.
José’s father, although he was an official, was imprisoned several times after the war, however, Fernando lost his great-grandfather during that time, after the inclusion of the Francoists in his town, which took 50 people to shoot them.
They also agree that war does not bring anything good to society, whatever the type, wars are always a backwardness for man.
His life was not as bad as that of other friends and neighbors of the town. Both were and still are happy.
They say goodbye, thanking them for having them for this project.
Interviewer 3:
Patxi is a man of 79 years born in Bilbao, a province of the Pais Vasco, contrasts his opinion with the Andalusians who lived during his same period.
It should be noted that, according to what he tells us, he was from a good family, had a good education and more had political influence from his parents.
He, like every son of a good Spaniard, has made Francoist chants in school with his hand raised to the sun, but according to his point of view, those songs have the importance that one gives them, if any.
He also lived with the famous “ration card” and tells us that he was going to buy his grandfather tobacco and bleach to the supermarket with that card.
It makes reference to Eisenhower, since he was the first Head of State of a world power that met with Franco, after Adolf Hitler in Hendaye in 1940, and the famous Marshall Plan that was proposed as an aid to the most needy after the war and that turned out to be a funny satire on a Spanish level.
He also tells us that the police were very ill seen in those times. “The grays” as they were called were not very pleasant people for the Spanish population. Account also an anecdote when it was going to be confirmed in the cathedral of Santiago, with the bishop of Vitoria, which was approached by order of his father to greet him and kiss the ring, which was customary at that time.
However, when approaching to kiss the ring, one of the police escorting the bishop, knocked him away, which enraged his father and confronted the police. Once the confrontation was over, it was the bishop himself who approached him so that he could greet him and kiss the ring. He explains that the dictatorship lived by him was a time deprived of what we nowadays call human rights. At that time the dictatorial power of Franco, buried any hope of free expression.
Nowadays he also remembers the time of the transition, and tells us that democracy is made for criminals who know how to swim in it. It refers to one of the biggest scourges in Spain at the time of the transition to democracy, which was the terrorist commando ETA, born in País Vaco.
He tells us that ETA harmed both the Basques and the rest of the Spanish population. He talks about the fact that there was no right to strike, freedom of expression, and tells us that both the press and television were under the dictatorship’s control, and refers to the famous “censorship”, with which any media had a hard corrector, both in images and when writing a news.
Summary the dictatorship, as a time of oppression and lack of freedom. He also talks about the massacres that took place in the Basque country, and he gives us the example of Durango and Guernica. The latter was for the story reflected in a painting painted by Pablo Picasso, a native of Málaga.
He explains that both sides carried out this type of killings, the reds in Andalusia and the nationals in many parts of Spain.
Many of these barbarities were hidden by the media because they were dominated by the right, that is, by the Franco regime.
Interviewer 4:
Lourdes Parody Palacios (Link)
He tells us an anecdote that happened during the war, in the Line of the Conception in Cádiz.
Narrates that during the day of his father’s wedding, which coincided with the fair of his city, the military entered the house of some neighbors killing all the family that was inside, this left everyone dismayed, she says that she cried because it was a fair day, she was small and did not know very well what had happened, so she just wanted to go to the fair, without being aware of what had happened in the house opposite.
When her father found out what happened, he tried to reunite the whole family, and locked her in the house. At 2 o’clock in the morning she says that her father appeared again with a white handkerchief, and they were frightened in case the military also entered where they were hiding. His stepmother, was very nervous and with a crisis of anxiety because of the fear that everyone had.
After returning his father, that night they had to collect what little they had time to gather, and the next morning, they were evacuated to Gibraltar, to be later moved to London.
She says goodbye, thanks for having her for this interview and for letting her tell her story before the camera.
Interviewer 5:
Carmen is a 63 year old Andalusian woman, from Huesa, Jaén, but settled in Valencia for more than 40 years.
He tells us about his reflection on the time he lived, that is, during Franco’s dictatorship and the subsequent entry into democracy.
It uses a similarity with Víctor Frank and Mandela in the concentration camps in which they were confined. They even being locked up felt free, which defends that freedom resides within the thinking of each person.
It depends on the attitude with which you face the deprivation of such freedom.
He repeats again, that the freedom of expression in the era in which he lived was null, in his house you could never talk about politics, and tells us that, although his family and his home was always closer to the thoughts of the right , she felt a more rebellious person and with her ideals more similar to the thoughts of the left.
He complains that, in those times, the church, the school and the state were “one”, authoritarian and without margin of another type of opinion that was not the one they defended.
Critic that they had to attend church by obligation, and having to sing the “Face to the Sun” (Franco’s anthem), at the entrance and exit of schools.
According to she tells us, she has never liked being directed, and that is why she had that feeling of no freedom.
He considers the people of Andalusia conformist and for the same reason, analyzes the role of women in the same way, accusing them of being equally conformist with the role they have played.
She lives in Valencia, and spent time in Madrid, and narrates that the thinking of these cities is very different from that of Andalusia.
Analyze the dictatorship as a cancer for society, unable to do anything, living under a yoke. He considers that a dictatorship is deadly for a society, since it delays it in time.
In fact, explains that, at European level, Spain is still marked by those 40 years of dictatorship, remains anchored in time and with a huge delay, compared to the rest of the great European powers. Criticizes that, thanks to Franco, Europe still sees us very behind in time.
He explains that war is useless and that it never favors anyone. Think that none is good, but even less that which is lived in the same country, war between citizens and neighbors of the same region is still but a war between different nations.
He says goodbye, thanking us for letting us hear his opinion.